[Editor’s Notice: We’re excited this week to welcome a visitor host to the GeekWire Podcast, Ross Reynolds, whose voice is well-known within the Seattle area from his 34 years at KUOW, the general public radio station from which he retired in 2021. He’s joined by a particular visitor for a glance behind the scenes at work and life inside Amazon.]
Kristi Coulter’s newest ebook is Exit Interview: The Life and Dying of My Formidable Profession. It’s a memoir about what she realized in her 12 years at Amazon about work, gender bias, and herself. Exit Interview is Coulter’s second ebook. Her first, Nothing Good Can Come From This, is a set of essays about quitting consuming. As you’ll study from this podcast dialog, it intersects together with her Amazon profession.
Hear under, or subscribe to GeekWire in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you hear. Proceed studying for excerpts from the dialog, edited for size and readability.
Ross Reynolds: I actually loved the ebook tremendously. I spotted I didn’t know anybody from Amazon on the excessive degree that you simply had been, so I’ve by no means been in a position to have this dialog though I’ve lived in Seattle for 30 years.
Kristi Coulter: Proper. Individuals don’t speak, both.
Ross Reynolds: OK. It’s not my fault.
Kristi Coulter: No, it’s definitely not solely your fault, however individuals from Amazon have been very closed-mouthed concerning the place.
Ross Reynolds: Why?
Kristi Coulter: I believe a part of it’s simply basic discretion. You don’t wish to spill, inform how the algorithms work or one thing, but in addition I believe there’s a certain quantity of worry. It’s really been fascinating to me previously three or 4 years to see issues begin to leak out of Amazon fairly routinely. I don’t bear in mind ever listening to a couple of doc leaking to the press in my 12 years there. It most likely occurred in some unspecified time in the future, however now it appears to occur routinely, video footage, paperwork, every kind of stuff. ….
Ross Reynolds: The impression of Amazon is what drew you to wish to work there, however you had a profession earlier than that. What bought you to Amazon?
Kristi Coulter: I had a extremely nifty job at an early web firm known as the All Music Information, which was principally a database of each report on Earth. … I used to be residing in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I had run out of runway in my profession. It was simply too small a spot for me to go any additional. And I used to be actually uninterested in the winters. Climate has typically been a motivating pressure for me. And I assumed, “I’m going to have to depart right here to go additional in my profession” as a result of Ann Arbor, it’s a college city. There’s simply not the form of stuff I used to be on the lookout for.
And so I utilized to Amazon on a whim as a result of my husband has household out right here, and I assumed, “Properly, I’ll get my resume polished. This received’t go wherever.” They known as me inside two hours. I used to be right here interviewing a number of days later, lower than per week later, and I acknowledged it as my probability to make a giant change in my life. I used to be 35 or about to show 36. Felt like I used to be caught and life is perhaps over, which appears hilarious now to suppose that at 35, however I used to be like, “That is my probability. Let’s do it.” …
Ross Reynolds: What had been you employed to do at Amazon, and what had been your first impressions whenever you got here right here [in 2006] and walked within the door for these first days?
Kristi Coulter: I used to be employed to run merchandising, so principally onsite advertising for the books and media shops, so for 5 totally different storefronts, and particularly employed to make it a greater job. That they had an extremely outdated software set. I imply, the instruments had been nearly non-functional. They broke on a regular basis. Individuals had been actually depressing. That they had been employed as editors, and the job had then shifted to one thing the place their opinions and their data didn’t matter. It was extra about simply scheduling content material. In order that was my job. And after I walked in, my first impression was simply the chaos. I anticipated Amazon to be a well-oiled machine, and it was simply so chaotic.
Ross Reynolds: What had been the signatures of the chaos?
Kristi Coulter: Simply individuals barely in a position to take 5 seconds to say hiya to me. Actually, no ramp up. I interviewed somebody the day I arrived. They put me on an interview loop.
Ross Reynolds: To rent another person?
Kristi Coulter: To rent another person. I used to be like, “Don’t try this.” And I used to be like, “Okay, I’ll go together with it.” My first boss, who was a really good man, had principally no time for me. I imply, I most likely had, I don’t know, 5 – 6 one-on-ones with him and my first six months. So it was identical to, “Simply determine it out.” And simply principally, they provide you a listing of names of individuals to speak to and also you simply do it. So I used to be on shuttle buses, shuttling throughout downtown Seattle, making an attempt to principally put collectively a jigsaw puzzle.
Ross Reynolds: However you had been profitable. I imply, you had been there for a dozen years. You moved up the ranks.
Kristi Coulter: Properly, technically I by no means moved up. I used to be by no means promoted, which turned a giant sticking level for me. I got here in as a degree seven. Amazon has twelve ranges or one thing, and I stayed a degree seven, however I did get larger and larger jobs. And I believe it occurred first as a result of it was a sufficiently small firm that folks may see, together with individuals very excessive up, that I got here in and simply began to get it collectively. They may dump me in there, and I used to be like, “Properly, I’ll determine find out how to survive right here,” as a result of failing was not one thing I thought of an possibility. And I believe I simply developed that status as somebody who may simply determine stuff out and delivered some outcomes and other people would form of faucet me on the shoulder for varied jobs. It additionally actually helped that I got here from a liberal arts background.
Ross Reynolds: Actually? Why is that?
Kristi Coulter: As a result of Amazon wanted somebody who understood language and writing and voice. And so they had been by no means actually going to rent for that as a result of they, definitely on the time, didn’t wish to imagine they wanted it, however they did. And as soon as I used to be there, it turned obvious that I may assist. I may assist the positioning to have a voice once more. I may assist the merchandisers to really write higher. And so there have been a number of very good executives there who had been like, “Properly, whereas she’s right here, let’s use this.”
Ross Reynolds: So what was probably the most troublesome factor about working at Amazon? What was the largest problem for you? And was it the identical problem for everybody there, do you suppose, or was it specific to you?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah, it’s only a actually punitive surroundings. It’s a tradition the place there’s probably not a lot of a thanks. You’re principally all the time centered on what you possibly can have accomplished higher to the exclusion of what went effectively. The tradition form of runs on worry. Everybody I knew at Amazon was some degree of afraid, from paralyzingly afraid to just a bit bit low-level, I’ve realized to dwell with this afraid, but it surely’s brutal in that approach.
Ross Reynolds: Is {that a} good factor in some methods, to be somewhat bit on edge?
Kristi Coulter: I believe to be somewhat bit on edge is okay. And really feel such as you’re taking dangers and issues. … In one of many articles on Amazon, somebody stated, “It’s the place overachievers go to really feel dangerous about themselves,” which I used to be like, sure, certainly. And I believe that it will get to a degree the place you’re simply grinding individuals down. And I don’t really know that folks do their greatest work after they’re feeling actually afraid. what I imply? You’re simply fascinated with survival then.
Ross Reynolds: Properly, you write about stacked rating, and that’s one thing that may make you actually afraid. For individuals not conversant in it, they principally rank everyone within the division, and the underside 10% get fired. That’s finish of story. I perceive Amazon has denied doing this. However in your ebook, you say they completely did this, proper?
Kristi Coulter: Oh, yeah. A few years in the past, I used to be studying an article and so they denied ever having accomplished stack rating, and I used to be simply shocked as a result of I participated in that train three or 4 occasions in my profession there. And yeah, you get in and also you rank everybody, and that backside 10%, they’re not fired proper then, however they get a really robust message, as we’d put it again then, that they wanted to enhance. And a few of these individuals actually did. There have been individuals the place you had been like, oh yeah, this particular person’s most likely bought to go, however there have been additionally individuals who ended up in that 10% simply because they had been strong, however extra restricted in what they might go on to do. And in some unspecified time in the future, throwing these individuals out is simply actually self-defeating as a result of not everyone must be the quarterback. Not everyone must be a rock star. You additionally want people who find themselves not making an attempt to take over the world, however who’re actually good at their jobs.
Ross Reynolds: You discuss lack of appreciation, however you additionally discuss some incidents the place individuals stated issues to you in conferences that had been devastating to you. Might you speak somewhat bit about these experiences?
Kristi Coulter: I believe the worst expertise I had in a gathering was, I had bought a reasonably bold plan to remodel the merchandising position to the VPs and Senior VP Jeff Wilke in North America. They had been very keen about it. And I went to the Worldwide VP [a different executive] to get his buy-in. And he learn the doc — the well-known factor the place individuals sit in a room and skim the doc — actually quick. He learn it too quick. And I assumed, ‘Ooh, that is both actually good or actually dangerous.’ And I stated, “So, any suggestions?” And he stated, “Sure, it’s silly.” Simply full cease. And I used to be like, “OK … are you able to inform me one thing extra particular about that?” And [he said], “It’s simply silly.”
Ross Reynolds: The place do you go along with that?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah. What do you do with that? One in all an government’s greatest roles is to show. … That’s not the way you educate somebody. And ultimately, he really denied that the opposite VPs may have probably learn it. He principally stated, Jeff Wilke, junior solely to Jeff Bezos, “Oh, he didn’t learn it. He simply stated he did. As a result of if he’d learn it, he would suppose it was silly, too.” …
He stated this complete room stuffed with alpha males, who will not be precisely used to coddling anybody, all of them should have been mendacity. After which he stated I used to be silly. … I used to be like, do I throw down, or do I cry? What do I do? And I simply tried to only get out of the room with out crying, principally. Simply very troublesome. However yeah, that was most likely the worst. It was a direct assault on me. And even worse, it was this grown man with immense energy and data simply throwing a tantrum.
Ross Reynolds: I’m a giant fan of this podcast known as Battle Techniques For Your Sexist Office. And as I used to be studying your ebook, I used to be fascinated with that. Would that government have stated that to a person?
Kristi Coulter: Most likely, actually. Possibly worse. Most individuals I labored with at Amazon had been, not less than on the floor, respectful, however there have been a number of of us … It’s humorous, I had a dialog with a buddy, an ex-Amazon buddy yesterday who stated this identical man as soon as yelled at her on a convention name for 2 hours. I haven’t heard the identical tales about him treating males that approach, however males bought handled fairly badly at Amazon, too.
Ross Reynolds: Was that ever a problem the place you thought, I would like to boost this gender bias challenge?
Kristi Coulter: Who would you’ve gotten informed? … A part of it’s that Amazon is so intent, or the system is so intent on having you blame your self for your entire issues, that I assumed, oh, it’s simply me. If I had been a unique form of girl, I may deal with this higher. I’d rise above. Additionally, as a Gen X-er, that’s how I used to be raised. Nothing can cease you however your self, which isn’t actually true, it seems. But in addition, there was such a denial of any gender bias at Amazon. Individuals weren’t even prepared to entertain the concept. It might’ve been form of suicidal to make a giant deal out of it.
Ross Reynolds: There’s simply been a category motion swimsuit towards Amazon for gender points. What’s your touch upon that, since your ebook delves into that fairly a bit?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah, it’s been fascinating. The swimsuit is about large pay gaps between girls in a single a part of the group and a person who was at their degree, however making [150%] extra a 12 months for a similar job. Amazon’s comp, like plenty of tech firms’ comp, is absolutely difficult, no pun meant. Once you began actually impacts your base and the inventory. I think that it may prove that there’s a non-sexist rationalization for the pure comp points, not that that makes it proper, however the girls had been categorized as advertising venture managers, and the person was categorized as a analysis scientist, even if all of them had been analysis scientists. And I believe that’s actually fascinating. That drove plenty of the pay distinction. And probably the most fascinating factor concerning the swimsuit is that there was direct retaliation when the ladies reported it. They went to HR on the lookout for explanations. And one girl who was up for promotion was informed that as a result of she had complained, they didn’t really feel she was prepared for promotion anymore. That’s the large factor for me.
[Editor’s Note: Read the full text of the lawsuit here. Amazon has denied the allegations in the suit, and said it doesn’t tolerate workplace discrimination.]
Ross Reynolds: Did you expertise that? Was your job description totally different than males’s job descriptions who had been giving paid greater than you?
Kristi Coulter: It’s all the time exhausting to know since you’re not supposed to speak about comp, however I did have a time when a person who reported to me was making $60,000 greater than I used to be, regardless of being a degree decrease than I used to be. And I used to be like, effectively, that is odd. And I went to HR and simply stated, “What’s happening?” And no one was ever in a position to give me a proof. And so they had been like, “Properly, it may very well be plenty of issues.” And so they additionally made me really feel somewhat bit gauche for asking. There’s this sense of, “Properly, I imply if you wish to preserve looking for out, you’ll be able to, however … “
Ross Reynolds: Are you able to be a celebration to the category motion swimsuit though you don’t work there anymore?
Kristi Coulter: No. It’s simply three girls proper now, however they wished to cowl all girls from 2016 to ’20 or one thing in sure jobs. I don’t suppose I’d be a celebration to it, however I believe it may very well be a pleasant forcing perform to deliver some of these items out within the gentle. There was additionally some knowledge in it concerning the man who managed all these girls taking girls’s names off of paperwork he was presenting, though they’d written the paperwork or co-written them. Just a few actually dangerous stuff.
Ross Reynolds: If approached by an lawyer, would you be a part of a lawsuit like this? Do you suppose you’ve gotten the products?
Kristi Coulter: I will surely speak to the lawyer. I’ve by no means felt like something that occurred to me at Amazon rose to “name a lawyer” degree, but when there was a category motion and I may gain advantage from it, I’d need to take that cellphone name, proper?
Ross Reynolds: You had been in conferences with Jeff Bezos. What was that like?
Kristi Coulter: Scary. Jeff, in my expertise one-on-one, was actually cool. I really actually appreciated him. He’s humorous. He’s very engaged. Virtually in each assembly he’d say one thing that may make me go like, “Oh my God,” one thing revelatory that I’d bear in mind. But it surely’s horrifying as a result of he’s so highly effective. To be within the room with any individual who’s the wealthiest man on the earth. Or he was second or third on the time, was actually, actually terrifying to me, and I may by no means fairly get previous that. It was very exhausting to only see him as an individual, though he’s really fairly personable.
Ross Reynolds: However Amazon’s manifest success as a enterprise, from the within, did you ever suppose, they may very well be doing a few of these personnel issues higher? Or does its very success say, “No, they’re clearly doing it proper”?
Kristi Coulter: In some methods, I assumed the success stated they had been doing it proper. Even at its greatest, it will not be a spot for everybody. It’s good to be super-comfortable with change and issues shifting quick and ambiguity, and it’s actually exhilarating. I set to work on issues I by no means would have at extra sane firms or firms with much less cash, however yeah, I imply, you would need to go searching and suppose, these persons are so good, so sensible. My coworkers had been so gifted. What in the event that they weren’t additionally fried and exhausted and determined? They may most likely be even higher, and it simply didn’t appear sustainable.
Ross Reynolds: However how do you do each, I assume?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah. I don’t know that you simply do. I believe that it’s fascinating seeing the struggles Amazon’s having now. A part of me thinks, have they hit some wall? I bought to a degree the place girls domestically particularly would inform me, “Yeah, I simply received’t take their cellphone name. I received’t interview at Amazon.” The status was so dangerous it was pushing expertise away. And that’s anecdotal, in fact. I’m positive numerous individuals can be blissful to work there, however I bear in mind pondering, that’s not good when your rep is so dangerous that gifted individuals simply are writing you off as a result of there’s plenty of fascinating issues about working there.
Ross Reynolds: You write that success at Amazon wasn’t essentially having these core abilities. It was determining find out how to work the Amazon system, find out how to get the programmers to do what you wanted them to do.
Kristi Coulter: Sure. One purpose I used to be in a position to transfer round lots and truly have, actually, a number of totally different careers at Amazon was as a result of individuals would overtly say, “Properly, I’m not so apprehensive that you simply don’t understand how the publishing enterprise works. You know the way Amazon works and you possibly can determine the publishing enterprise.” And it’s true, it was true. And after I speak to younger individuals now, I all the time say, “Don’t underestimate your transferable abilities. Understanding find out how to meet individuals and ask questions and suppose critically, they’re actually useful.” However yeah, it will take another person six months to determine how Amazon works. It took me not less than six months, and so we all the time wished to rent from inside. Individuals would get frightened about hiring from outdoors as a result of the ramp-up time would all the time be longer than we thought we may afford, as a result of that’s simply how people work.
Ross Reynolds: Amazon is so large, and that actually got here via to me in a bit within the ebook the place you learn information accounts, these well-known accounts, of staff at an Amazon Achievement Heart being taken out in ambulances as a result of the temperatures had been over 100 levels. And a part of your response was, “Oh yeah, that’s the corporate I work for.”
Kristi Coulter: Yeah. That was [reporter] Spencer Soper. He’s right here in Seattle now, however he wrote that in Pennsylvania. Yeah. I used to be like, “Oh, proper. We’ve got warehouses.” As a result of I moved away from the retail enterprise pretty early on. … And it was surprising to comprehend how shortly one thing like that might simply fall out of my view. But it surely did after which it did once more.
Ross Reynolds: You went there since you had been bold to do one thing large. By the point you left, did you accomplish what you got down to do?
Kristi Coulter: I labored on issues I by no means would’ve dreamed of. I believe in some methods I did accomplish what I got down to do, however I used to be the form of one who bought promoted like clockwork my total life. I used to be simply that form of lady, I’m going to do the additional credit score, I’m going to get promoted, and I by no means bought the large promotion that was dangled in entrance of me for 12 years. I believe I had seven or eight conversations with totally different bosses that had been like, “You’re a 12 months away.” And so by that one exterior metric of success, I left feeling like a failure. I used to be like, “Twelve years. These individuals, nobody may handle to get me promoted.” And it actually nonetheless form of bugs me.
Ross Reynolds: So that you internalized that. You thought to your self, “That have to be my fault that I didn’t get the promotion.”
Kristi Coulter: I undoubtedly thought so for some time, after which in some unspecified time in the future I used to be like, “These individuals don’t have their act collectively.” No person may give me the identical story. I had one VP inform me — I had a complete doc with what I assumed I wanted to do to get promoted, and I wished his suggestions and he stated, “Simply change the world. Simply change the world and also you’ll get promoted.”
Ross Reynolds: Simply change the world.
Kristi Coulter: Yeah. I used to be like, “Oh, thanks, dude. That’s nice.” And it was like he wasn’t even making an attempt to have a severe dialog with me. And so I bought to a degree the place I used to be like, “These individuals don’t perceive what they’re doing, what they’re speaking about.” I finished blaming myself a bit then.
Ross Reynolds: I’m positive individuals ask you, “Ought to I’m going to work at Amazon?” What do you inform them?
Kristi Coulter: I normally inform them, “It relies upon.” I don’t inform individuals, “No. Simply run screaming.” However I believe you wish to be very particular and clear about what you need out of the expertise. You wish to most likely go in with an exit technique. Possibly in case you’re younger in your profession, you go in and also you say, “I’m going to remain for 3 years and I’m going to do X, Y, and Z, after which I’m going to go.” And you need to keep in mind that it’s going to be tough and that nobody is absolutely going to care about you. Your coworkers and your boss, numerous fantastic individuals work there, however the system of Amazon actually doesn’t care if you’re a effectively particular person or not, and it’ll completely spit you out.
Ross Reynolds: Because you began, Amazon has all these model new buildings in downtown Seattle. So has the catering improved? Have these parts that had been so starkly not there whenever you arrived, did they alter over time?
Kristi Coulter: A bit bit. There are cafeterias now. I used to be in Columbia Tower with that bizarre meals court docket, however there’s no gymnasium, the fundamental company facilities. We had bike cages and ultimately we had some locker rooms. There weren’t rooms for nursing moms after I bought there. There was a toilet.
Ross Reynolds: Have been there by the point you left?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah, yeah. … However I used to be at a espresso store someplace and I heard a man operating a startup speaking to an worker, and he was making an attempt to provide her a pep speak, and he was like, “This isn’t Amazon. I’m not going to have the ability to provide the free meals and the free haircuts and the massages and … but it surely’s going to be superb.” And I used to be pondering, wait, he’s bought the incorrect concept about Amazon. It’s not Google. So the principle perk for workers was you possibly can get $100 off the web site per 12 months in case you went into the HR software and located this code in January. No person would e mail you to remind you. They wouldn’t ship it to you. It was principally, in case you remembered you possibly can get that $100 off.
Ross Reynolds: Was {that a} dialog amongst workers there? “Boy, they’re form of low cost!”
Kristi Coulter: Yeah. We had a management precept of frugality, which is that you simply wish to be frugal with cash, which is smart. However in some unspecified time in the future, somebody made a Wikipedia web page known as “frupidity,” for the merger of “frugal” and “silly.” There have been issues like individuals being anticipated to fly to India a number of occasions a 12 months in coach and go straight to the workplace after they bought off the aircraft. I had a pc that was taking seven minutes in addition up and so they didn’t wish to give me a brand new one as a result of it wasn’t fairly on the finish of its four-year life cycle. Issues bought actually silly.
Ross Reynolds: Your first ebook: Nothing Good Can Come From This: Essays About Quitting Ingesting. Your second ebook, Exit Interview, The Life and Dying of my Formidable Profession. Are these two issues associated, the consuming points and dealing at Amazon?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah, completely. I imply, Amazon didn’t make me an alcoholic. I used to be most likely destined to be an alcoholic from a really early age, however I definitely was consuming increasingly more to only deal with the stress of the day. It was the one approach I may overlook each mistake I had made that day or each perceived mistake, and it actually, actually ramped up. And I really ended up doing an A/B check as a result of I stop consuming midway via my Amazon profession, and I wasn’t positive I’d have the ability to keep, and keep sober, however I did. I stayed one other 5 – 6 years. It’s doable, however I actually needed to put up boundaries and develop a backbone in a approach that I had not needed to as a drinker, after I may simply go house and drink it away. So I needed to change as an individual, and never everyone appreciated Kristi with a spine.
Ross Reynolds: That reveals monumental power, not solely to have the ability to overcome this troublesome office, however to beat alcoholism, which is a illness.
Kristi Coulter: I didn’t wish to die. I used to be both going to die younger or I used to be simply going to not — My life was getting smaller and smaller. It was simply Amazon after which consuming to recover from Amazon, and I had sufficient, I don’t know, imaginative and prescient to see that there needed to be a greater approach.
Ross Reynolds: So have you ever gotten any feedback from former colleagues at Amazon about Exit Interview?
Kristi Coulter: A flood. A flood of them. I’ve heard from so many individuals in Amazon places of work all over the world, girls particularly, saying, “Thanks for telling my story.” However plenty of males too, which stunned me, as a result of the ebook has such a gender inflection. Males saying both, apart from the gender half, you had been telling my story. … Or, there’s lots within the ebook concerning the sexism as plenty of unconscious bias. It’s not a spot the place males are identical to, “Properly, girls are dumb.” They don’t know that they’re sexist.
Ross Reynolds: Might you give an instance of that? What’s one thing that was, clearly, they’re simply clueless?
Kristi Coulter: The management at that degree. So at my degree, it was 20% girls and 80% males. Amazon at entry degree is about 50/50 cut up, after which girls simply vanish. And also you get into administration, girls are gone. For more often than not I used to be there, there was no girl reporting on to Jeff on the S Workforce.
Ross Reynolds: The S crew is? For many who don’t know.
Kristi Coulter: Oh, sure. The S crew is principally Jeff’s direct stories. It’s the very high degree of management. However at any time when this is able to come up, males would simply be like, “Properly, I assume girls, they only don’t need these jobs actually.” Or, “Ladies have totally different priorities.” … I used to be like, actually? It’s 80% male as you go up the ranks? And plenty of it will come round to, effectively, girls have kids. However I used to be like, however I don’t have… Actually, plenty of girls I knew at Amazon didn’t have kids as a result of in case you wished to rise, it was a lot simpler to not have kids.
However I believe that males had been falling sufferer to this factor that males do typically and that I see white individuals fall sufferer to additionally, which is pondering it was their private fault if an surroundings had structural sexism.
In order that they weren’t in a position to step again and be like, “That is bizarre.” Amazon had no firm daycare, and that was one thing girls talked about lots, and I not often heard males discuss it, and if males had talked about it, perhaps one thing would’ve modified as a result of they’d the ability. But it surely was identical to, effectively, girls don’t need these jobs. I heard many occasions, “Oh, girls are too good to need these jobs.” Like, oh yeah, we’re simply passing on the ability and the cash and the leverage. Certain. We’re simply too good for that.
And so it’s irritating as a result of when you’ll be able to’t title an issue, you’ll be able to’t discuss it in any respect. So plenty of males wrote to me saying, “Thanks for displaying me what I simply… completely, it was not seeing. I used to be simply satisfied that that is simply the best way that nature made it. Clearly, it’s imagined to be principally males for a purpose,” and that was nice to see males be like, “Oh, proper, this isn’t regular.”
I’ve additionally had girls inform me that bodily copies of the ebook are being handed round Amazon from girl to girl, and so they’re writing notes and inscriptions to one another, and that despatched chills down my backbone. It’s like a brand new little whisper community for girls, like a yearbook or one thing.
Ross Reynolds: Have you ever bought to do any readings right here in Seattle and have these individuals present you these books with the annotations?
Kristi Coulter: I’ve seen a pair pictures of a kind of. However yeah, I’ve girls come as much as me at occasions in Seattle and inside a minute they’re crying. They simply stroll up and simply begin sobbing. And it’s heartbreaking. I imply, it’s fantastic as a result of they’re crying as a result of they really feel just like the ebook confirmed them themselves, however I really feel like there’s lots of people in ache on the market in tech.
Ross Reynolds: Your ebook is named Exit Interview. Is that this as a substitute of an actual exit interview? Did you get an actual exit interview at Amazon? Did you get to say any of this?
Kristi Coulter: No, I didn’t. Amazon, it’s an enormous firm. Lots of people simply get this way to fill out, however some individuals do get in-person exit interviews. And as somebody who’d been there for 12 years, I used to be within the 98th percentile for tenure and considered one of few girls at my degree. I assumed, effectively, somebody’s going to wish to speak to me. I used to be leaving on good phrases. I bought the shape as a substitute, and I used to be form of shocked, however I assumed, okay, I’ll do that. And we had a tech glitch after I was submitting the shape, which I had taken two hours to fill out, and it was misplaced to the ether, and I laughed as a result of it was good. I used to be like, in fact, now I’m going to depart, and nonetheless, my voice is not going to be heard. I may very well be glib and say, I wrote this ebook as a result of I didn’t get an exit interview. However there was one thing to that. I used to be like, I’ve issues to say about my expertise right here, and I’m going to say them in some way.
Ross Reynolds: Only a private query, since you labored at Amazon for 12 years, do you by no means need to work once more?
Kristi Coulter: Oh my God, I want. No.
Ross Reynolds: Not that good?
Kristi Coulter: Yeah. I used to be very effectively paid at Amazon. The pay was nice, and I used to be there at a time when the inventory was going insane. No. It purchased me some ramp. Amazon paid for me to jot down this ebook, basically. However no, I do must work, sadly. However I prefer to work, additionally.
Exit Interview: The Life and Dying of My Formidable Profession, by Kristi Coulter, is revealed by MCD, an imprint of Farrar, Straus & Giroux. It’s accessible wherever books are bought (sure, together with Amazon).
Manufacturing help on this episode from Curt Milton.
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